Photography Full frame vs crop camera

[René Rufer]

I think we have a voucher code on Macroderie to get discount on software.

Yes 10%, I used it. But it's not so easy to find. Is located at the bottom in the user menu: https://macroderie.com/pages/deals/
There are more other benefits under the deals!

 

[Vas (Jack)]

What an interesting topic Jack!

I could write tons of things on this subject.
My gear consists basically of Full Frame cameras plus one crop frame camera. I migrated to Full Frame some years ago for many reasons. But before I write anything more there is some things that must be said first!
Above all is the photographer, his/hers knowledge, motivation, psyche and purpose, behind the camera.
A better camera won't do better photos.
Better lenses will sure deliver better 'technical' results with moderate bodies than cheap lenses in hi-end bodies.
And finally is what kind of photography the photographer is doing and what expectations does he/she has.

Now about the advantages with facts.
There are some factors that are the most basic.

Pixel pitch / size
It has to do with the pixel surface and its ability to gather photons which will be then converted to electrical signal. And this is physics! A 24mp full frame sensor has larger pixel surface than a 24mp equivalent crop or smaller format sensor have.
This results in better 'sensor saturation' gathering more light (better signal to noise ratio even in native iso) and thus needing less 'signal amplification' in high iso with whatever this means in signal quality degradation.
There are also cases that some high res full frame cameras have identical pixel pitch / size to crop cameras. i.e. Nikon D850 (FF) has about the same size of pixels as the D500 (APSC).

Sensor Technology
Very very important as well! We have seen great improvements in sensor performance even in sensors with smaller sized pixels because they are designed with BSI technology or stacked.
In example a High res FF sensor (45mp - 60mp) could be greatly benefit from this technology because it uses smaller pixels to achieve the desirable designed resolution to the same physical boundaries of a standard (if i can use this term) resolution FF sensor, let's say 24mp. So it benefits from quicker readouts e.t.c.

Processor Technology
The 'magic staff'. Yes it is very important as well. Good computational technology is needed to manage the sensor signal with the least noise possible and the best possible 'called' colour science.

Inevitable Physics
So we have a good sensor, a good processor and all is fine. Well not exactly. A larger pixel sized sensor will surely achieve better 'saturation' (not colour saturation, I'm talking about light / photon saturation)
And physics do apply to lenses as well with the same inevitable way. A good lens formula and implementation will make even a modest camera offer great results.

It is a chain of things which combined offer a result.
BUT!
The photographer is the most important 'element' in the equation.
It is greatly important for any photographer to have the high knowledge in exposure understanding and interpretation of it creatively through the use of exposure settings in order to achieve his desired result. And for this case there are many techniques to achieve it.

Now to a more subjective (personal) side of things.

I work with almost the same comfort and trust with my crop camera as with my Full Frame cameras. One reason of course is that my crop camera offers amazing Image Quality for my personal criteria and needs.
My Full Frame cameras do offer though some significant advantages over my crop camera. They offer better colour depth, better dynamic range especially in shadows, significantly lower noise floor even in native iso which is quite helpful in files shot in native iso which happen to have a lot of shadow parts with plenty detail.
Better contrast/clarity especially in reach textured scenes or subjects.

Now about sharpness I won't comment because it has to do clearly with high pass filter presence or not in each sensor along with what lens the photographer uses.

Now if someone would set me a dilemma of choosing to use only one format I would choose Full Frame without a second or even a first thought. FF straight. Although I'm very pleased with my crop camera which I do also find it to be quite sufficient, the advantages of my FF cameras do offer my 'more space' to work on my images plus the advantages of colour depth I aforementioned.

Before someone answers the question Crop or Full Frame camera oughts to, at least, know very very well, the fundamentals of exposure, his/hers camera gear and how it works and of course the importance of lens implementation in the equation of Subject / Light / Camera / Photographer through his/hers personal needs!

If the above things are well sought out and the individual can 'take the most out' of his/her gear then he/she will definitely know what is the best to use along with his/hers needs.
If not, then discussions like this end with meaningless debates as we see in social media communities etc.

That's a lot of information in just one post. But very useful.

I do agree with you here that is person behind the lens is the one who will help to achieve better results with any camera.

The reason why I asked is, because I'm using ff lenses on crop camera, would switching to ff camera will improve image quality?

I don't really shoot in low light, so most of the time, I have no issues with noise on my images. Even, if there are some noise, I use third party software such as Topaz to remove it from the photo.

 

[Vas (Jack)]

Yes 10%, I used it. But it's not so easy to find. Is located at the bottom in the user menu: https://macroderie.com/pages/deals/
There are more other benefits under the deals!

Hope they all work. As I haven't checked them for a year now 😅

 

[panos_adgr]

That's a lot of information in just one post. But very useful.

I do agree with you here that is person behind the lens is the one who will help to achieve better results with any camera.

The reason why I asked is, because I'm using ff lenses on crop camera, would switching to ff camera will improve image quality?

I don't really shoot in low light, so most of the time, I have no issues with noise on my images. Even, if there are some noise, I use third party software such as Topaz to remove it from the photo.

Yes! You will definitely get better results in the fields we described.

 

[Vas (Jack)]

Yes! You will definitely get better results in the fields we described.

Then I’ll have to start saving for mirrorless camera, maybe EOS RP

 

[panos_adgr]

The new mirrorless Canon lineup is very improved in image quality. At least this what is said and heard.

 

[Vas (Jack)]

The new mirrorless Canon lineup is very improved in image quality. At least this what is said and heard.

Probably that’s the reason why the cameras are so expensive.

 

[Chavezshutter]

Probably that’s the reason why the cameras are so expensive.

The new Canon FF are heavy hitters, very impressive cameras. And pricey 😟 just like all the good gear. My brother and I have been going backwards and bought a very nice pentax LX film camera. It's so damn cool, all analogue and yet somehow so advanced for its time, very James Bond 🤣

 

[oscar118]

The new Canon FF are heavy hitters, very impressive cameras. And pricey 😟 just like all the good gear. My brother and I have been going backwards and bought a very nice pentax LX film camera. It's so damn cool, all analogue and yet somehow so advanced for its time, very James Bond 🤣

Speaking of film cameras... I have a Nikkormat FTN and a Olympus OM-10, both bought brand new in 1970 and 1982...Both fully functional except for the photometer of the Nikkormat.

 

[panos_adgr]

Probably that’s the reason why the cameras are so expensive.

Well not exactly...
Generally it said to be cheaper, to design a mirrorless. First of all they 've got rid of all the moving mirror parts and the complicated af system behind the mirror with the secondary mirrors. They got rid of the pentaprisms and al these were replaced with the evf.
The functions are now based in good software development and processor technology which are quite evolved in our time. The sensor technology is also quite advanced having already great sensors with great dynamic range and speed.
It was a very good chance to raise a bit the prices and create products with better margin. It is not my opinion. It is what I read from articles, reviews etc.

In any case I still use DSLRs and not intend to migrate soon, as I'm greatly satisfied by my system.

 

[panos_adgr]

Speaking of film cameras... I have a Nikkormat FTN and a Olympus OM-10, both bought brand new in 1970 and 1982...Both fully functional except for the photometer of the Nikkormat.

Great cameras both!
I also have my film cameras! Almost all of them. All are functional and from time to time I shoot film. I miss these nice years of film.

 

[oscar118]

Great cameras both!
I also have my film cameras! Almost all of them. All are functional and from time to time I shoot film. I miss these nice years of film.

I used to have an amateur B&W lab in the 70/80s... lots of fun

 

[panos_adgr]

I used to have an amateur B&W lab in the 70/80s... lots of fun

That's great!

I was using film for many years but I never did film development. Well one of the reasons was that I was mostly shooting (90%) slide film and less B&W (10%). Slides needed certain chemicals with short lifespan after opening and a tight range of developing temperature. Specs that I couldn't manage as I had no dedicated space to it. Anyways. It was a very nice time. I still look at my slides from time to time. Great colours and feel.

 

[oscar118]

That's great!

I was using film for many years but I never did film development. Well one of the reasons was that I was mostly shooting (90%) slide film and less B&W (10%). Slides needed certain chemicals with short lifespan after opening and a tight range of developing temperature. Specs that I couldn't manage as I had no dedicated space to it. Anyways. It was a very nice time. I still look at my slides from time to time. Great colours and feel.

Oh, I have a couple thousands of color slides! Never tried to do lab work in color for the same reason! I remember travelling and taking many 36 mm film cartridges. In a really long, 4 week trip I could shoot 360 slides (10 cartridges) ...now you shoot more than that on a weekend...

 

[panos_adgr]

Oh, I have a couple thousands of color slides! Never tried to do lab work in color for the same reason! I remember travelling and taking many 36 mm film cartridges. In a really long, 4 week trip I could shoot 360 slides (10 cartridges) ...now you shoot more than that on a weekend...

Yes it so. Now we click soany times and so easy.... And we are less careful sometimes with composition. In film time each click was expensive 😅 and before we'd press the shutter we were calculating the frame from corner to corner.

Digital is surely a lot more co venient in this field. It allows you to click with no cost stress allowing us to practice easier and more.

But I do miss the colors of Velvia or Provia even Senia. Fuji was always my choice. There were some rare times when I used Kodak Ekta chrome which I didn't like... and one time when I used Agfa. I never used it again...

And my favorite B&W was Ilford FP4 plus 125, Ilpord Delta 100 and another o e which I can't remember... Sometimes I was using also Kodak TMAX but I never liked it. I was buying it sometimes when Ilford wasn't available at the local shop.

 

[oscar118]

Yes it so. Now we click soany times and so easy.... And we are less careful sometimes with composition. In film time each click was expensive 😅 and before we'd press the shutter we were calculating the frame from corner to corner.

Digital is surely a lot more co venient in this field. It allows you to click with no cost stress allowing us to practice easier and more.

But I do miss the colors of Velvia or Provia even Senia. Fuji was always my choice. There were some rare times when I used Kodak Ekta chrome which I didn't like... and one time when I used Agfa. I never used it again...

And my favorite B&W was Ilford FP4 plus 125, Ilpord Delta 100 and another o e which I can't remember... Sometimes I was using also Kodak TMAX but I never liked it. I was buying it sometimes when Ilford wasn't available at the local shop.

I used FP4 a lot! I once bought a can of FP4, and refilled the cartridges myself.. used also Ilford PanF and MarkV

 

[panos_adgr]

I used FP4 a lot! I once bought a can of FP4, and refilled the cartridges myself.. used also Ilford PanF and MarkV

The FP4 Plus was a dream film! Absolutely wonderful tones, amazing contrast. I have some great photos with this film.

 

[oscar118]

I have everything ready, just need to grab it and go shooting!!

 

[panos_adgr]

I have everything ready, just need to grab it and go shooting!!

View attachment 240

Beautiful photo that shows your love for your Nikkormat. 😊

Isn't it a great feeling when you use a fully manual camera?

I love it! When you advance the film and then set the speed and aperture, focusing carefully, composing and then the old good shutter sound.

We learned photography in another way with these cameras. We were extra careful for the composition and in metering. We were also relying a lot on experience and light 'reading' knowledge in any given scene. All this created greater satisfaction on a good resulted photo.

 

[oscar118]

Beautiful photo that shows your love for your Nikkormat. 😊

Isn't it a great feeling when you use a fully manual camera?

I love it! When you advance the film and then set the speed and aperture, focusing carefully, composing and then the old good shutter sound.

We learned photography in another way with these cameras. We were extra careful for the composition and in metering. We were also relying a lot on experience and light 'reading' knowledge in any given scene. All this created greater satisfaction on a good resulted photo.

I agree. And manual focus with a film SLR is much easier than manual focus with todays DSLR. Focusing in the nikkormat (microprism center) or in the OM-10 (split image with microprism ring) is much precise than manual focus in my D5600.
I learned to shoot with my grandmothers Zeiss Ikoflex, a very old ( around 1935 or so), dual-lens reflex, 6x6 format film camera. 12 exposures for each 120 film roll. Of course, fully manual, no photometer. Just a table suggesting speed/aperture combinations for typical scenes. The level of detail in those 6x6 negatives was impressive...