New wide angle lens

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TMG1961

TMG1961

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The camera i am using is a Sony a7rii and at the moment i only have the Samyang 35mm f/1.8 AF lens as a full frame lens. There is so much information to be found online and sometimes it is confusing, one says the lens is great and another says it is just ok or wouldnt even use it if given for free.

I am looking for 2 more lenses. One a tele lens and a wide angle lens. I am not sure if i want to go for a zoom lens for the wide angle or a prime lens. Maximum focal length of 28mm for prime lens, for zoom lens it should have at least a minimum length of 24 mm.

It probably will be a used lens, budget is around €1000. Not sure if anyone uses sony full frame a7r cameras. What lens do you own and can you recommend?
 
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Chavezshutter

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I have the Sony 28-70mm 3.5-5.6 and I would pick even the first version of Tamron's 28-70 over it, we have never been friends 😂. OSS is nice to have and the image quality is not terrible but I simply was spoilt by other lenses and never got into the lens' character and I rarely use it nowdays, but that's just my experience with it.
 
TMG1961

TMG1961

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I have the Sony 28-70mm 3.5-5.6 and I would pick even the first version of Tamron over it, we have never been friends 😂. OSS is nice to have and the image quality is not terrible but I simply was spoilt by other lenses and never got into the lens' character and I rarely use it nowdays, but that's just my experience with it.
It is difficult. I have seen reviews where they say that the image quality is excellent and that it real sharp. Others say it is rubbish and only good for the bin. The same goes for the 28-60 lens and also seen different reviews on the other 2 lenses mentioned.

It makes it hard for people to make a decision. The shops were i usually buy camera gear all give 12 months warranty on the lenses and we have a 14 days cooling off period in which i can send online purchased things back without giving a reason why i send them back.

I did ask the shop that sold the Tamron if they could do €500 but i got a short reply with only one word which was No. So based on the short answer i am not sure if their customer service is any good when i have a problem with the lens.

I will keep an eye on prizes, still have some time before the weather warms up and i go out more with the camera.
I also still have the 16-50 and 55-210 lenses from the a6400 and can always use them until i get full frame lenses. Not ideal but beteer then nothing.
 
TMG1961

TMG1961

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Monday and yesterday i tried buying a used lens. Monday the Tamron 28-75mm F/2.8 Di III RXD Sony FE and yesterday the Sigma 28-70mm F/2.8 DG DN Contemporary. The Tamron was €549 and the Sigma €649. But i was not lucky, both time someone was a little bit quicker then me and bought them just before i was able to put them in the shopping basket.

After some more testing today and going through some older photos to see what focal length i use most i decided that i will go for the Sony 24-105 f/4 and later this year add a 70-200, 70-300 or a 100-400 lens. Did see a nice 24-105 lens and contacted the shop to see if they could do something about the prize but again they refused to lower the prize, so that was a no as well, they asked €850 and i was not going to pay that. But i keep looking for one, maximum i want to pay is €700. Still have some time so not in a real hurry.
 
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Chavezshutter

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Monday and yesterday i tried buying a used lens. Monday the Tamron 28-75mm F/2.8 Di III RXD Sony FE and yesterday the Sigma 28-70mm F/2.8 DG DN Contemporary. The Tamron was €549 and the Sigma €649. But i was not lucky, both time someone was a little bit quicker then me and bought them just before i was able to put them in the shopping basket.

After some more testing today and going through some older photos to see what focal length i use most i decided that i will go for the Sony 24-105 f/4 and later this year add a 70-200, 70-300 or a 100-400 lens. Did see a nice 24-105 lens and contacted the shop to see if they could do something about the prize but again they refused to lower the prize, so that was a no as well, they asked €850 and i was not going to pay that. But i keep looking for one, maximum i want to pay is €700. Still have some time so not in a real hurry.
Retail seems to be very different in Europe, here in Oz any camera shop with a retail outlet knows they are in stiff competition from online shops and will haggle when pushed whenever posible. If you can show the shop you want to purchase from a better price for the same item then the shop is (almost) obligated to match that same price. We gave some pretty serious laws regarding consumer rights and it is quite an eye opener for companies and retailers entering our market that its not just the consumer entering an agreement with them when they make a purchase but also they who are entering a serious agreement with Australian consumers when they choose to make business here. Software companies in particular have received multi million dollar fines for not honoring our refund policies. Anyways, sorry to rant about all that 😂.

That Sony 25-105mm is pretty good all rounder, not a bad zoom to get more image quality out of your camera. From there you can decide where you want to put your money as far as focal length is concerned. Good luck with it and hope you get a good deal 😃
 
TMG1961

TMG1961

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Here in The Netherlands customers are protected when they buy online. I can send an item back within 14 days without giving a reason why. Warranty for new camera gear is 2 years and 1 year for used gear. Small local shops are almost died out, in my town there is 1 very small shop which doesn't have much as far as digital camera gear goed.

The prizes in online shops are the same as far as new products goes, for used products there is a little bit of difference between them but that is not much. It usually comes down to delivery time and having the items on stock. Because the nearest camera shop is about 35km away from me and it is hard to find a parking spot in the neighbourhood i shop online. Only downside is that you have to pay upfront and hope that the description is correct but up till now i had goed experience and if not you send it back and either have it replaced or you get your money back within 7-10 days.

I could go for a Sony FE 28-70 f/3.5-5.6 at the moment €149 used but not sure what to think of the image quality, some say it is ok and others say it is complete rubbish
 
Morexp57

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Retail seems to be very different in Europe, here in Oz any camera shop with a retail outlet knows they are in stiff competition from online shops and will haggle when pushed whenever posible. If you can show the shop you want to purchase from a better price for the same item then the shop is (almost) obligated to match that same price.
In Switzerland, the very small store I have been going to for years always has the best price. Plus, they take back bodies and lenses for a good price. I don't know how he does it, but he always has the same prices as the big distributors or sometimes even cheaper.
 
TMG1961

TMG1961

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In Switzerland, the very small store I have been going to for years always has the best price. Plus, they take back bodies and lenses for a good price. I don't know how he does it, but he always has the same prices as the big distributors or sometimes even cheaper.
Unfortunately there is only one photoshop left in the town i live in, town is not that big, just 27500 people living here. And they do not take in used camera and lenses anymore. The owner is 65 and is cutting down on hours the shop is open. I have no experience with selling used camera gear to a shop so no idea if they pay decent money for it.
 
TMG1961

TMG1961

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I have been reading reviews and watching a lot of videos of several lenses. But the more i read and watch the more confused i get. Sometimes i even wonder if the reviewers are talking about the same lens so far apart are their findings. I have seen reviews of lenses that did go from being bad to great lens, good image quality to average.

So wondering, who can you trust to give a honest review of a lens and tells it as it is? Are there reviewers you watch and you know of that they are honest in their reviews and tell the real story about a lens?

Problem is that among the people i know that do have photography as a hobby only 1 shoots with a Sony a7r series camera. And he uses GM lenses which are a very long way out of my budget.

At the moment i can not decide (after thinking too long and reading/viewing too many reviews) between the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 Di III RXD Sony FE and the Sony FE 24-105 f/4 or to go for either the Sony FE 70-200 f/4 or the Sony FE 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 OSS. And then there are also both the Sigma lenses the sigma 28-70mm f/2.8 dg dn contemporary and the sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 dg dn art. And not even mentioning the new Samyang 24-70 f/2.8 which at the moment is €809 euro new with a discount or €899 without the discount.
And there are a few other lenses that fit into the budget like the Tamron 28-200 or the Tamron 70-300 or the sigma 100-400 to make it even more complicated.

To be honest it is driving me crazy. All 7 lenses fit in the budget, either used or second hand. They go from €559 for a used tamron to €1049 for the sigma 24-70 f/2.8 dg dn art. They also all fit in the focal range i use most. They all have their strength and weakness. Renting all lenses for a day is not an option, would mean the final lens will be around €300 more due to the prize of renting the lenses.

Where are the days gone when you had 1 or 2 choices and that was it. No stress, no panic just picked one and be happy.
 
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Andy Smith

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Hi TMG1961,
It's never easy when you watch multiple reviews like you say because each person has their own different opinion.
For me I would always go for the native Sony for a Sony camera, but that's just my opinion.
I find some great, honest, simple and reliable reviews for multiple manufacturers here:

 
TMG1961

TMG1961

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Hi TMG1961,
It's never easy when you watch multiple reviews like you say because each person has their own different opinion.
For me I would always go for the native Sony for a Sony camera, but that's just my opinion.
I find some great, honest, simple and reliable reviews for multiple manufacturers here:

I know his site, been looking through his reviews as well. Think i just have to make a decision. If the lens is not up to my standards i can always return it and get another one.
 
Andy Smith

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I know his site, been looking through his reviews as well. Think i just have to make a decision. If the lens is not up to my standards i can always return it and get another one.
Yeah sometimes you just have to go for it. I usually have a gut feeling as to which one I am leaning towards so just go get it, and then get out and about with it. Whichever you choose TMG1961, I am sure you will be delighted and take some nice shots.
 
TMG1961

TMG1961

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Yeah sometimes you just have to go for it. I usually have a gut feeling as to which one I am leaning towards so just go get it, and then get out and about with it. Whichever you choose TMG1961, I am sure you will be delighted and take some nice shots.
I am going to ignore the reviews and going to take a fresh look at it. All the lenses i mentioned have their pros and cons and all do fit into the budget. The image quality is good on all of them, weight is also not a problem (except maybe the samyang 24-70, weighs over 1 kg). It is also time i sit down and ask myself which direction i want to go with photography besides macro, will it be landscapes, architecture or wildlife, birds (in flight)? At the moment i am shooting to many different things.
 
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Chavezshutter

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I have been reading reviews and watching a lot of videos of several lenses. But the more i read and watch the more confused i get. Sometimes i even wonder if the reviewers are talking about the same lens so far apart are their findings. I have seen reviews of lenses that did go from being bad to great lens, good image quality to average.

So wondering, who can you trust to give a honest review of a lens and tells it as it is? Are there reviewers you watch and you know of that they are honest in their reviews and tell the real story about a lens?

Problem is that among the people i know that do have photography as a hobby only 1 shoots with a Sony a7r series camera. And he uses GM lenses which are a very long way out of my budget.

At the moment i can not decide (after thinking too long and reading/viewing too many reviews) between the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 Di III RXD Sony FE and the Sony FE 24-105 f/4 or to go for either the Sony FE 70-200 f/4 or the Sony FE 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 OSS. And then there are also both the Sigma lenses the sigma 28-70mm f/2.8 dg dn contemporary and the sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 dg dn art. And not even mentioning the new Samyang 24-70 f/2.8 which at the moment is €809 euro new with a discount or €899 without the discount.
And there are a few other lenses that fit into the budget like the Tamron 28-200 or the Tamron 70-300 or the sigma 100-400 to make it even more complicated.

To be honest it is driving me crazy. All 7 lenses fit in the budget, either used or second hand. They go from €559 for a used tamron to €1049 for the sigma 24-70 f/2.8 dg dn art. They also all fit in the focal range i use most. They all have their strength and weakness. Renting all lenses for a day is not an option, would mean the final lens will be around €300 more due to the prize of renting the lenses.

Where are the days gone when you had 1 or 2 choices and that was it. No stress, no panic just picked one and be happy.
Reviews on anything (specially youtube) need to be tempered by knowing where the $$$ is coming from regarding the reviewer. For channels I watch regarding equipment I quickly find out if they are sponsored by someone. A Sony embassador for example will always try to push the latest and greatest Sony gear. A Zeiss lens sponsored shooter/reviewer will try to push Zeiss glass, etc. And both may downplay or even put down other gear that is in competition to their sponsors. Some are more impartial than others but you need to keep in mind the whole where is the money coming from game. A company will reach out to youtubers and ask for a favourable review in exchange for gear. Ultimately the reviewers are trying to make a living and if that means overhyping their sponsors while keeping competition in a bad light then so be it. I also prefer to watch photographers that youtube than youtubers who take photos and review gear if you get what I mean 😉.

For Sony gear, I followed Mark Galer for a long time. He IS a Sony embassador but he is also a career long photographer and a university teacher for photography here in Melbourne. He has some very in depth understanding of Sony gear and photography in general. Of course if I want to see gear outside of Sony I go elsewhere. Gerald Undone or photography's Rainman as I like to call him 🤣 is great for all things technical (when a new camera comes out all youtubers wait for his review to make sure they dont mess some setting or feature) and he reviews a lot of Sony gear as well as third party stuff. Other good mentions are Christopher Frost and Dustin Abbot.

I would not be concerned about your camera's resolution affecting the performance of a lens. Lens manufacturers have been making lenses leaning towards resolution and sharpness for a while now. Why? because sharpness has become one of the biggest criteria for a lens. Is it sharp? is one of the first question a buyer wants to know about a lens. Other lens qualities have taken a back seat in order to make ever sharper lens able to resolve images for sensors with ever higher resolutions. There has never been a case I have used even my lens with worst image quality on my A7iii that looked worst on my brother's a7riii. If it looked good on my camera it looks good on my brother's, if it looked bad on my camera it looked bad on his. Maybe this is an issue with very low build quality but I have never encountered issues with it even with a Tamron lens. I have also never seen an e-mount lens (From Sony or 3rd party) which was claimed to be inferior if mounted to say an A7rIV at 61MP because of resolution.

I am going to comment only on what lenses i know that you listed. Here is my ranking:

  1. Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 dg dn Art - Nothing on your list is going to beat this. Specially for value for quality. Even the (very overpriced even for a GM) 24-70 GM is only marginally better in image quality. Sony will likely update their GM version soon.
  2. A close second would be the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 Di III RXD but only if this is the G2 version otherwise I would pick the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 dg dn contemporary for this spot
  3. Samyang 24-70 f/2.8 sits alongside the non G2 version of Tamron's 28-75mm f2.8 Di III RXD
While I like the reach of the Sony 24-105mm, i get the whole "Jack of all trades, master of none" vibe about it, but thats just my opinion. I know little about the longer focal lengths you mention.

Don't get overwhelmed by the choices, while they make decision time difficult, the advantages for any camera system that has third party glass far outweigh the downsides. For starters all glass improves in quality and value for money when you have choices, the native manufacturer (Sony in our case) is forced to provide either better quality glass or better prices. Competition improves what you get for your dollars. I know photographers that will look at what a system offers and will not go into a system that only offers native glass and finally some camera brands have waited decades to have their lens lineup be beefed up by manufacturers like Sigma, Tamron, etc. Buy one lens you know you want and make your decisions from that as you go forwards, nice and easy does it, no rush 😉
 
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TMG1961

TMG1961

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Reviews on anything (specially youtube) need to be tempered by knowing where the $$$ is coming from regarding the reviewer. For channels I watch regarding equipment I quickly find out if they are sponsored by someone. A Sony embassador for example will always try to push the latest and greatest Sony gear. A Zeiss lens sponsored shooter/reviewer will try to push Zeiss glass, etc. And both may downplay or even put down other gear that is in competition to their sponsors. Some are more impartial than others but you need to keep in mind the whole where is the money coming from game. A company will reach out to youtubers and ask for a favourable review in exchange for gear. Ultimately the reviewers are trying to make a living and if that means overhyping their sponsors while keeping competition in a bad light then so be it. I also prefer to watch photographers that youtube than youtubers who take photos and review gear if you get what I mean 😉.

For Sony gear, I followed Mark Galer for a long time. He IS a Sony embassador but he is also a career long photographer and a university teacher for photography here in Melbourne. He has some very in depth understanding of Sony gear and photography in general. Of course if I want to see gear outside of Sony I go elsewhere. Gerald Undone or photography's Rainman as like to call him 🤣 is great for all things technical (when a new camera comes out all youtubers wait for his review to make sure they dont mess some setting or feature) and he reviews a lot of Sony gear as well as third party stuff. Other good mentions are Christopher Frost and Dustin Abbot.

I would not be concerned about your camera's resolution affecting the performance of a lens. Lens manufacturers have been making lenses leaning towards resolution and sharpness for a while now. Why? because sharpness has become one of the biggest criteria for a lens. Is it sharp? is one of the first question a buyer wants to know about a lens. Other lens qualities have taken a back seat in order to make ever sharper lens able to resolve images for sensors with ever higher resolutions. There has never been a case I have used even my lens with worst image quality on my A7iii that looked worst on my brother's a7riii. If it looked good on my camera it looks good on my brother's, if it looked bad on my camera it looked bad on his. Maybe this is an issue with very low build quality but I have never encountered issues with it even with a Tamron lens. I have also never seen an e-mount lens (From Sony or 3rd party) which was claimed to be inferior if mounted to say an A7rIV at 61MP because of resolution.

I am going to comment only on what lenses i know that you listed. Here is my ranking:

  1. Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 dg dn Art - Nothing on your list is going to beat this. Specially for value for quality. Even the (very overpriced even for a GM) 24-70 GM is only marginally better in image quality. Sony will likely update their GM version soon.
  2. A close second would be the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 Di III RXD but only if this is the G2 version otherwise I would pick the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 dg dn contemporary for this spot
  3. Samyang 24-70 f/2.8 sits alongside the non G2 version of Tamron's 28-75mm f2.8 Di III RXD
While I like the reach of the Sony 24-105mm, i get the whole "Jack of all trades, master of none" vibe about it, but thats just my opinion. I know little about the longer focal lengths you mention.

Don't get overwhelmed by the choices, while they make decision time difficult, the advantages for any camera system that has third part glass far outweigh the downsides. For starters all glass improves in quality and value for money when you have choices, the native manufacturer (Sony in our case) is forced to provide either better quality glass or better prices. Competition improves what you get for your dollars. I know photographers that will look at what a system offers and will not go into a system that only offers native glass and finally some camera brands have waited decades to have their lens lineup be beefed up by manufacturers like Sigma, Tamron, etc. Buy one lens you know you want and make your decisions from that as you go forwards, nice and easy does it, no rush 😉
Thank you. That was a very helpful comment. I do watch the reviews of all the people you mentioned. The list of the 4 shorter zoom lenses helps a lot. Will have to view them a bit better and compare their specs.

I also made up my mind about what i will be going to shoot besides macro. Birds and wildlife is great, but the majority of birds here are smaller then 7 inch and even with a 200 or 300mm lens it will be almost mission impossible to get good photos from further away the a few meters and they tend to not stay still for long enough. I will be concentrating on landscapes and architecture, might not be easier to achieve but its bigger, it stays still and easier to find :ROFLMAO:

I still have the 16-50 and 55-210 mm lenses from the a6400 but i find using them is like driving a v8 and only use 4 cylinders. The a7rii has 42 MP but in crop mode it is only 18MP. I did not buy the a7rii after the problems i had with 2 a6400 cameras to shoot 18MP photos, then it would have been cheaper to stick with the repaired a6400 and hope it kept working as it should. Hope that makes sense.

So after all that said and i finally decided which turn to take as far as photography goes i am going have a cup of coffee first and then have a look at the specs of the mentioned lenses. Then compare all and make a decision on which one to get and if it will be a brand new lens or a second hand one, second hand ones also come with a 1 year warranty here, new lenses have a 2 year warranty that sometimes get extended by the manufacturer to 5 years.
 
TMG1961

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Just had a look and it would be between €200 and €250 cheaper to buy a used nikon d7100 with a used 70-300 or 55-200 lens then buying a used sony 24-105 or a sony 70-300. Used lenses for Sony are not cheap here :( And the majority of lenses you find are either 35mm prime lenses or sony 24-70 f/4

I was almost tempted to buy a d7100+nikon 55-200 for €528 instead of a sony 24-105 for €749 or a sony 70-300 for €799
 
TMG1961

TMG1961

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A little over a month later and i am still looking for a new lens. Time flies when you are having fun :ROFLMAO:
I missed out a few times on a lens, was a little too slow on clicking the button. There are enough Sony 24-70 f/4 lenses available but i am not sure after all the mixed reviews, price is around €400-500 for a used one.

Also been looking at the tamron 70-300mm f/4.5-6.3 di iii rxd which is €549 here, but it does not have image stabilisation and not sure if the IBIS of the Sony a7rii is up to the job at 300mm. I think i would be better of with the Sony 70-300 which does have image stabilisation and comes around €800 used.

So still looking for a new lens. Been getting back into using the Laowa macro lens, still need some practice to get the photos sharp again. But early in the year and insects are still sleeping so got time to practice.
 
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TMG1961

TMG1961

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I give up the search for a new lens. I only get frustrated, missed out a few times on a lens and now the only lenses available are the ones i either do not want or who are too expensive. Also having some problems getting sharp photos, for the last 2 weeks every photo i took was not sharp. No idea what is causing it. The shutterspeed is fast enough, the lens and the camera are both stabilised, iso is between 100 and 400 and focal length is between 70 and 300. Using the sony 55-210 aps-c kitlens for the time being.
 
Andy Smith

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I give up the search for a new lens. I only get frustrated, missed out a few times on a lens and now the only lenses available are the ones i either do not want or who are too expensive. Also having some problems getting sharp photos, for the last 2 weeks every photo i took was not sharp. No idea what is causing it. The shutterspeed is fast enough, the lens and the camera are both stabilised, iso is between 100 and 400 and focal length is between 70 and 300. Using the sony 55-210 aps-c kitlens for the time being.
Kit lenses are more than adequate TMG1961, keep shooting with what you have and save your money until the right lens which you really want comes along within the budget you have saved.
Practice your skills with the kit lens and the Laowa macro, it is time well spent and doesn't cost anything. :)
 
TMG1961

TMG1961

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Kit lenses are more than adequate TMG1961, keep shooting with what you have and save your money until the right lens which you really want comes along within the budget you have saved.
Practice your skills with the kit lens and the Laowa macro, it is time well spent and doesn't cost anything. :)
Thanks for the answer. I still have plenty of time left to practice, still very early in the year and most insects have not come out. I checked my shutterspeed but with the occasional photo were it is less then the focal length most are at least the same or faster then the focal length. So will be doing some practising the next few days/weeks to get the photos sharp again.
 
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